Question to highpower shooters who owns a SCATT

[Highpower]

I am looking at buying a SCATT unit, primarily to use for practicing offhand (SR1 target) and prone slow (SR3 target).

For those of you who own a SCATT and use it for practicing high-power shooting I would very much appreciate insight on the following:

- Which SCATT unit / model do you use and are you happy with it? Does it work well for the purposes of practicing high-power shooting?

- How do you attach the unit to your rifle and did you need to get any additional parts to attach it to the rifle? My uppers have regular round handguards (no picatinny rails). Is it possible to attach the SCATT unit to the round handguards? Or do you attach it to the barrel?

- For indoors dry-fire practice, do you need to re-calibrate the unit for every practice session? Or does it remember the calibration between sessions (assuming distance to target, and target height remains the same)?

- If you do need to recalibrate, how long does that take to perform?

- Have you had any recurring issues with your SCATT unit, such as inability to recognize shots, losing calibration, or any other types of issues?

 

[dwdehaan]

- MX-W2. Really great fun shooting the SCATT for Service Rifle HP practice. Easily the best function of the SCATT is observing the trace. I'm set up and shooting within a 5 minutes - shoot for 40-50 minutes and tear down. I really like the wireless.
- I have it mounted to the scope tube (although the barrel will work) It seems to work very well in this location. I use the band that the SCATT comes with. You have to connect it to a solid METAL part of the gun that can feel the vibration of the hammer fall.
- Calibration really isn't a big deal. You simply take a shot on target. The unit will remember the prior calibration and if you haven't removed or bumped the unit it will be ready to go. I usually just calibrate each session anyway. The MX series are really easy to use.

 

[Highpower]

- MX-W2. Really great fun shooting the SCATT for Service Rifle HP practice. Easily the best function of the SCATT is observing the trace. I'm set up and shooting within a 5 minutes - shoot for 40-50 minutes and tear down. I really like the wireless.
- I have it mounted to the scope tube (although the barrel will work) It seems to work very well in this location. I use the band that the SCATT comes with. You have to connect it to a solid METAL part of the gun that can feel the vibration of the hammer fall.
- Calibration really isn't a big deal. You simply take a shot on target. The unit will remember the prior calibration and if you haven't removed or bumped the unit it will be ready to go. I usually just calibrate each session anyway. The MX series are really easy to use.

Thanks, that is great info.

Do you use it both for dry fire and live fire practice? If so, what distances for the live fire?

For dry fire practice, what distance do you have between yourself and the target?

 

[Соня Байдуник-и-Папа-Сони]

[QUOTE = "dwdehaan, post: 1727, member: 1055"]
Калибровка действительно не имеет большого значения. Вы просто делаете выстрел в цель
[/ QUOTE]

Не согласен. Важна!! Даже, когда делаешь поправки (мы в основном пользуемся этой функцией). По своему нелёгкому опыту скажу - лучше взаимодействовать с командой SCATT. Всегда поддержат и помогут советом! У мня всегда все проблемы начинались с калиброки
P.S. Это моё личное мнение. Субъективизм.

 

[dwdehaan]

So far, just dry fire. I have 10m (33ft) dry fire "range." I may experiment with Live Fire to evaluate rapids, reloads and return to NPA. But I really don't have a great deal of need for the live fire at this point. I bought the MX-W2 for the complete wireless funtionality. I wanted to shoot more, with less driving, ammo, time, $$ etc.

 

[Peter]

- How do you attach the unit to your rifle and did you need to get any additional parts to attach it to the rifle? My uppers have regular round handguards (no picatinny rails). Is it possible to attach the SCATT unit to the round handguards? Or do you attach it to the barrel?

Our default mounting prism should be good to go in 90% of the cases.
You could always ask folks at info@scattusa.com when placing an order, they'll be more than happy to assist you with this.
(or take a pic of your gun/name the model and I'll reply you here)

- For indoors dry-fire practice, do you need to re-calibrate the unit for every practice session? Or does it remember the calibration between sessions (assuming distance to target, and target height remains the same)?

Calibration results are carried over to your next session (at the time only within one event, but future software versions should be able to save Calibration input for a handful of targets at once). The only prerequisite for a new Calibration would be a weapon swap (thus, a change in barrel length, sights, etc.).

- If you do need to recalibrate, how long does that take to perform?

Calibration is basically just 1 shot, so pretty much ~10 seconds tops (given that you went through your first time setup already and everything is practice-ready). The vast majority of users just Calibrate before every session, since it takes mere moments anyway

 

[Соня Байдуник-и-Папа-Сони]

[QUOTE = "Петр, сообщение: 1748, участник: 1"]
Калибровка - это в основном всего 1 снимок, так что максимум ~ 10 секунд (учитывая, что вы уже прошли первую настройку и все готово для практики)
[/ QUOTE]

Пётр, калибровка делается только в режиме фото? Мы с дочкой калибруем лишь на фоне чёрного круга. Это неправильно?

 

[Peter]

калибровка делается только в режиме фото? Мы с дочкой калибруем лишь на фоне чёрного круга. Это неправильно?

Режим видоискателя (это Вы называете фото?) существует для проверки соосности, там мы хотим видеть мишень в центре поля зрения камеры. Но непосредственно во время исполнения калибровочного выстрела мы этот режим отключаем и работаем на черном круге

 

[rlporter507]

I am looking at buying a SCATT unit, primarily to use for practicing offhand (SR1 target) and prone slow (SR3 target).

For those of you who own a SCATT and use it for practicing high-power shooting I would very much appreciate insight on the following:

- Which SCATT unit / model do you use and are you happy with it? Does it work well for the purposes of practicing high-power shooting?

- How do you attach the unit to your rifle and did you need to get any additional parts to attach it to the rifle? My uppers have regular round handguards (no picatinny rails). Is it possible to attach the SCATT unit to the round handguards? Or do you attach it to the barrel?

- For indoors dry-fire practice, do you need to re-calibrate the unit for every practice session? Or does it remember the calibration between sessions (assuming distance to target, and target height remains the same)?

- If you do need to recalibrate, how long does that take to perform?

- Have you had any recurring issues with your SCATT unit, such as inability to recognize shots, losing calibration, or any other types of issues?

i have a ws1, and a a mx2, i really prefer the ws1. less fiddly. but if you must have one to shoot live fire get the mx2. i believe the scatt is a training device, and i use it to break down different drills, at home mostly when i can't get to the range, so no need for live fire. all my live fire is done in matches, or working on rapids. you cannot do rapids on the ws1 or mx2.

i train hp with the ws1 in the past with irons, but most recently with a scope, which presented a few problems. my 4x scope will not focus at 6m. so i have to use it on 1.5x. so now the target black looks to small, to correct this i printed out a larger target by trial and error, 1m at a time to get the right proportions of dot and black to look the same as 4x at 200 yrds. its working pretty good, but at 1.5x it does not move as much as it does on 4x. i dont train prone on the scatt, i shoot smallbore indoors at our range for that.
the unit attaches to the end of the barrel, i use a piece of blue painters tape wrapped around the barrel to get a tight fit under the band so it dont slip. the band is not long enough to go around a a2 handguard. and you would not want it there anyhow.

i leave the band on the rifle, and just take off the unit from the band to charge. even if i take the band off, if you aline the sensor directly under the barrel, calibration is a one shot deal. after a few shots, if im not on call, you just move the shot with the little hand option.
so yes 1 calibration shot each session. even if you dont move the sensor. takes the time for one shot and to hit the close button.

my unit works perfectly with no issues, ive had it for less than a year, but i have one of the first scatt's made, wired, that is serial port, and i used it for over 10 years, and its still working for the guy i sold it to. and i bought it used. it is a solid unit.

i suggest the ws1, no wires, easy to set up, anything over a 10.5 is a x, i use the scatt professional program, that they are no longer going to support, so make several copies of it. i have not warmed up to the expert program yet, but i have not used it much.

I use my scatt with our junior program for years, its a wonderful tool.

 

[rlporter507]

i have come up with a couple of OH drills, first is to dry fire with the scatt with no coat, soft shoes, not shooting boots, its really wobbly at first, but after quite a number of sessions, you will notice its getting better. then when you go with the boots and coat, it looks so much better. not using any equipment will teach you to pay more attention to your balance, which is the key to being a hard holder.
second is to work on the mount of the rifle at a target. with gear, shouldering the rifle, applying body twist, and coming straight down on the target, do not dryfire. just work on the mount. do this for a couple weeks, along with the no gear drill.
then the next step is to take the target out of the scatt frame, and dryfire on a blank paper. you will be surprised that your eye will center on the scatt frame, and when you look at the traces youll see how tight you held.

 

[Peter]

i use the scatt professional program, that they are no longer going to support, so make several copies of it.

Pro software, even though that it's indeed going to be retired, shall remain available for download from our official website
So there's really no need to hoard the .exe files

 

[rlporter507]

ok, thanks, but i have 3 copies on 3 different devices just in case! dont hurt to be a boyscout! LOL

 

[Highpower]

... you cannot do rapids on the ws1 or mx2....

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, much appreciated.

Just curious, why is it not possible to do live-fire practice of rapids with the mx-02? I can see it not being possible with the WS1 since it is only for dry-fire but are there live-fire limitations with the mx-02 that prevents from using it for rapids?

 

[rlporter507]

well you got me there, i was not considering live fire. only dryfiring, which you would have to re-cock each time. peter will have to chime in here, maybe on the biathlon mode?????? i have not tried live fire with the mx2 for slow or rapids, maybe the recoil will be enough to move the sensor off the target. on the ws1 you have to completely move the sensor from the target area to reset for the next shot, i do the same with the mx2, so im not sure. honestly, i have used the mx2 very little, i like the ws1 for ease of setting up that it just's sits in the locker. it was given to our junior program, and only gets use when we need 2 juniors on the scatt at the same time. we are in the process of setting up a 10 point electronic scoring range, and im sure it will get more use when thats done.
I only train rapids live fire, with a cle 22 upper, or actual SR. i would think that dry fire practice would be enough to get the position fairly close, and then make small changes for recoil.

 

[Peter]

Just curious, why is it not possible to do live-fire practice of rapids with the mx-02? I can see it not being possible with the WS1 since it is only for dry-fire but are there live-fire limitations with the mx-02 that prevents from using it for rapids?

As rlporter507 said above, biathlon mode is the closest camera-based models can come to rapid fire scenarios, since in this event you are exiting a target to get to the next one (on top of that, we have a 1 "mute" second after each shot so that the sensor doesn't pick up bolt action sounds as false shots when the shooter is reloading between his shots).

If you shoot the same target several times in quick succession, the traces will not provide much valuable data (trajectories are going to be too jerky and short), while powder gases may obstruct the camera's ability to see the target.

 

[Highpower]

OK. Highpower rapids are shot as 10 shots in 60 seconds (sitting), or 10 shots in 70 seconds (prone) with a mandatory magazine change (always shot magazine of 2 + magazine of 8). So one shot every 3 - 5 seconds.

In terms of the sensor exiting the target, is it enough to exit the target black or does it need to exit the full target?

 

[Peter]

Highpower rapid fire is be fine, I was thinking more about military style burst fire practice, sorry for the confusion).
Exiting the black should be enough.

 

[Davidf92]

If you shoot the same target several times in quick succession, the traces will not provide much valuable data (trajectories are going to be too jerky and short),

Well why not make it an option?

I don't agree at all that the traces between shot are not valuable. In ISSF rapid-shooting like 25m sport for instance (sorry I don't know about other disciplines and national standards) inter-shot control of your gun is crucial.

Why not an optional "repeated-shooting" mode?
It could consist in setting a time value after a shot, like a cut-off, after which the software would instantly switch to the next shot trace even though the sensor didn't leave the target detection angle. The green trace for the next shot would start exactly where the red trace of the previous shot ended, although displayed on successive targets as usual.
This time value could be as small as 1/10th sec, up to several seconds, say 10.
Take the example of ISSF "standard pistol" (25m), in which you have 5-shot series in 20 sec, down to 10 sec, during which you must not put your gun down. For 20 sec you would maybe set this time cut-off parameter at 1 or 1-1/2 sec, while for 10 sec you would probably set it at 1/2 sec only.
Regarding noise detection, it could be suspended for a short period while the gun reloads. Probably a few 1/10th sec.

In the parameters there could simply be a "repeated shooting" checkbox with a first "switch shots" time cursor and a second "hold sensitivity" time cursor.
Finally there would be some way to determine the end of the shooting series. Maybe a preset shots number, or simply when the gun has moved out of the detection angle for some long time.

I don't imagine playing with these simple parameters for the training / match conditions you wish to shoot would be too difficult.

Any comments from other shooters?

 

[CareMich]

Agreed with Davidf92 above. I have had my MX-W2 for several months and have been working almost exclusively on my offhand (standing) service rifle technique. However, if and when I feel that I've mastered it, I will want to work on other positions.

In regard to both Davidf92 and Highpower's comments, however, it is much less than ideal to have to exit the black prior to resetting the trigger prior to each shot. Good rapid technique demands that a shooter recover as soon as possible from recoil, etc. before each subsequent shot; exiting substantially interrupts that.

I like the idea that Davidf92 proposes to permit the setting of a specified time frame in which the trigger reset is not picked up by the software despite being in the target black.

Thanks all!

 

[rlporter507]

so if the trace for shot one ends on the red, and after a set time it turns to green and you start over on shot 2, what is a 10 shot trace going to look like, an orange blob??? click the all traces button after a 10 shot string of slow fire, and see what it looks like. not saying it cant tell you something, because it does, but any thing between shots is going to be pretty obscure.
now if you could play them back one at a time, that would be cool!