comparability of dry firing on shorter distance than on original distance.

Your highest shooting achievement
10m pistol French Championship qualifications
Skill Level
Amateur/Hobby Shooter
Primary Discipline
Air Pistol
SCATT Experience
3 years
Joined
May 13, 2020
222 Posts
139 Helpful Votes
3 Best Q&A Answers
Regarding the question of parallel movement I don't think they would have any interest in trying to simulate it. I can see two reasons:
At first, shooting at reduced distances is still a secondary feature. Scary remains a competition-oriented shooting trainer primarily designed for use at the range, whether with a coach (PC version) or alone (smartphone).
Secondly, a great thing with the purely optical sensor is the ability to shoot at reduced distances with no need of any additional software or hardware component. All it requires is optics with a short minimal focus distance, and helping the user print scaled-down targets. However, compensing for parallel displacement at shorter distance can't be solved optically (without IMU data), it would need that short distance to be known, which would require additional user interaction. I don't think they would do it. Ever since this forum has been online the "Feature suggestion" section has been receiving substancial contributions without much return, even when related to obvious limitations in the field of user interface. It just doesn't seem to matter to the designers. Scatt genes somehow.
 
OP
Tarta86
Primary Discipline
Air Rifle
SCATT Experience
Over 10 years
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
13 Posts
9 Helpful Votes
0 Best Q&A Answers
@Tarta86 What is this other IMU system with which you are doing the comparison? Is it another shooting simulator, or are you playing with a piece of hardware?
it is kind of both ;) this is the company Mantis. I built an analyzing pipeline based on the API to play with the data we collect in the swiss shooting federation. The device works for all shooting disciplines. I didn't know it at first. It was brought to my attention by an other coach. Firstly it was developed for dynamic shooters, now they are adapting the shotdetection algorithm to the static shooting disciplines.

back to SCATT. I understand they don't want to share this level of information ;) still I'd love to recieve an exportfunction of the scatt-expert files for further analysis purposes.
 
Your highest shooting achievement
10m pistol French Championship qualifications
Skill Level
Amateur/Hobby Shooter
Primary Discipline
Air Pistol
SCATT Experience
3 years
Joined
May 13, 2020
222 Posts
139 Helpful Votes
3 Best Q&A Answers
I'd love to recieve an exportfunction of the scatt-expert files for further analysis purposes.
This was mentioned in this forum and I did for sure read that some earlier version .scatt files had been reversed-engineered, with all the trajectory data extracted, and that some third-party software did compute shot analysis and display graphics as different as useful compared to Scatt soft. But I can't remember which files were concerned. Maybe .scatt pro version files, in which case it would still be functional. Try searching the forum.

As good as I can remember, this older format did use plain numeric- or text-format tabulated data, like some CSV, which was pretty easy to identify and extract. In comparison the newer Scatt Expert format seems to store raw binary data, maybe SQL blobs (since the libraries show it is built with Qt 5 and uses SQLite) , which would require a pretty higher level of reverse-engineering to decipher. Worth a try if you have time to spare? Or rather target hacking the display interface to intercept the numeric coordinates of known format sent to Qt or Windows widgets when replaying shots? Far from my computer skills anyway.
 
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Your highest shooting achievement
10m pistol French Championship qualifications
Skill Level
Amateur/Hobby Shooter
Primary Discipline
Air Pistol
SCATT Experience
3 years
Joined
May 13, 2020
222 Posts
139 Helpful Votes
3 Best Q&A Answers
I didn't know Mantis. Prices are 1/10th of Scatt's!!! At first sight it features interesting analysis, like the "Direction and Magnitude" graph, the detailed trace analysis seems to show different graphs, the "Training Modes" would probably please shooters bothered with the match-only session format in Scatt, and "History" if it is like the TargetScan app would definitely fill a huge lack in Scatt.
Are you saying that the sensors work with IMU data only?
 
OP
Tarta86
Primary Discipline
Air Rifle
SCATT Experience
Over 10 years
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
13 Posts
9 Helpful Votes
0 Best Q&A Answers
I didn't know Mantis. Prices are 1/10th of Scatt's!!! At first sight it features interesting analysis, like the "Direction and Magnitude" graph, the detailed trace analysis seems to show different graphs, the "Training Modes" would probably please shooters bothered with the match-only session format in Scatt, and "History" if it is like the TargetScan app would definitely fill a huge lack in Scatt.
Are you saying that the sensors work with IMU data only?
Yes the mantis works with IMU only, I have seen the datasheet: actually they just use rotational Data to display the trace. I was able to test a Mantis - X3 sensor. Works great for Air Pistol, and Smallbore Rifle. Shotdetection of Air Rifle isn't that good yet. but they are constantly improving the algorithm. The WebApp is easy and functional. all you need is there:
1617002826103.pngyou could zoom in on every shot you ever did as much as you like.
just after training the data is beeing uploaded to the database and is available for comparing with other shots of previous sessions. Also an export function is available: and there is a ("basic") problem detection for every shot. 1617003018762.png
And as you say, it is affordable for everyone, the price is unbeatable.

But it just measures weapon movements, not aimingpoint movements. In the biomechanics-chain the aimingpoint fluctuation have a higher degree of explaining the shotresult than the weapon-movements. therefore scatt is still the gold standard when it comes to explaining why a shot is where it is. Nevertheless Mantis has a nice bunch of features ;) I guess you first have to determine what you want to measure or what question you'd like to answer and than you choose the according device.
 
Your highest shooting achievement
10m pistol French Championship qualifications
Skill Level
Amateur/Hobby Shooter
Primary Discipline
Air Pistol
SCATT Experience
3 years
Joined
May 13, 2020
222 Posts
139 Helpful Votes
3 Best Q&A Answers
But it just measures weapon movements, not aimingpoint movements.
Quite agreed. Also maybe the cause of lower performance for air rifle, as weapon movements are so tiny. When shooting air rifle body movement, instability etc. is what you most have to concentrate on.
As I see it Scatt remains very often a shared training tool used with a coach (MX-02 version), and as a coach you watch the shooter from behind and see his behavior, body movement etc. Therefore you know what the shooter will have felt himself and you can show him on-screen the relation between the moves that he felt but often not precisely identified, and the aiming/firing consequences. Even by yourself it happens once in a while that you make two mistakes that fortunately compensate and yield a good score, one of both being some body instability with parallel swaying movement. Yet your Scatt will show it and I believe far better than the Mantis, as you describe its functioning.
 
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